
https://www.ucpress.edu/books/the-gabriel-of-madness/hardcover
Rushnae Kabir: Urdu poets – Hindu and Muslim, past and present – are the primary interlocutors in your book. You show how contemporary political subjectivities are formed through an engagement with the “mimetic archive of Urdu poetry.” What, in your opinion, makes Urdu poetry such a productive site to study contemporary political subjectivities in India? What is the relationship between this mimetic archive and what you call the “networked public sphere”?
Anand Taneja: For me, one of the best things that Shahab Ahmed achieves in What is Islam? is to forcefully remind those of us in Islamic Studies of the centrality of poetry to the Islamic discursive tradition. In Muslim societies, poetry is the pre-eminent medium of public intellectual discourse, and hence poets are the pre-eminent public intellectuals. Think of his Khwaja Ghulam Farid’s kafi, “ai husn e haqiqi”. As Shahab Ahmed shows in his analysis of this poem, here is a poet—considered a wali (friend of God, or saint)—presenting to us the diverse philosophical and theological approaches to God in the vast Islam intellectual/spiritual tradition, and presenting them in a melodic metrical form which an unlettered farmer living by the Indus could remember, recite, and sing along to. Or think of Ghalib who says of his own poetry that it contains masa’il-e tasawwuf, the problems/conundrums of Sufism. At the same time, this poetry is deeply personal: the subject who speaks the sh‘ers of a ghazal is an interior self expressing its questions and doubts, its vulnerabilities and weaknesses. Like Ghalib who says, in the same sh‘er, that he would be considered a wali, was it not for his wine-drinking. So poetry, the most widespread form of discourse in Muslim societies, is both philosophical and affective, both deeply personal and entirely universal. It is also, thanks to its metrical form and rhythm, an eminently mnemonic and memorable form. So in a sense poetry has always been a mimetic archive: a concept I borrow from the work of William Mazarella. Of Urdu ghazal poetry, people often say that it is gagar men sagar, the ocean in a pot of water. It can bring you the vastness of the Islamic tradition, and express the complexity of being human, in two pithy lines. And this form and tradition continue to be central to meaning making and ethical self-formation in contemporary India, which is what my book draws attention to. Poetry has always been a mimetic archive, but when it meets the networked public sphere—a concept I take from the work of Zeynep Tufekci—the accessibility and reach of this mimetic archive becomes exponentially greater. You and I can now access live musha‘irah recordings from the 1980s on our smartphones, or read digitized 18th century texts, or find new and exciting poets on Instagram reels. This vastly expanded access to the mimetic archive of Urdu poetry has led to profound social effects and cultural shifts, some of which this book explores.
Rushnae Kabir: The Gabriel of Madness draws attention to an imagination of public ethics that lies outside of the State and does not draw on its coercive and disciplinary power to maintain harmony. Rather, it relies heavily on friendship between the Hindu and Muslim communities. How would you describe this conceptualization of friendship? How does it relate to the longer, historical tradition of Hindu-Muslim interactions in India?
Anand Taneja: As I think about your question, the first image that comes to my head is from the iconic movie Sholay, Veeru and Jai singing, “Yeh dosti ham Nahin torenge”: two heterosexual men singing that they will die but not give up each other’s company. I think that movie and that song highlight the importance of friendship in South Asian popular culture. Friendship is not just “light touch intimacy”, but a deeply valued and valorized form of intimacy, which has always carried the potential of crossing otherwise strictly patrolled boundaries. Inter-religious marriage may be uncommon in India, but inter-religious friendships have not been uncommon at all: I am thinking, for instance, of the warmth with which the 19th century poet Ghalib addresses Hindu friends and shagirds in his letters. Or I think of my own experience growing up in Lucknow where I didn’t know any difference between my Hindu and Muslim friends and classmates till the growing politics of Hindu nationalism made it otherwise. That being said, inter-religious friendship as a social and historical phenomenon is quite understudied. In his book Perilous Intimacies SherAli Tareen argues that Hindu-Muslim friendship becomes problematic for certain Muslim thinkers in the colonial context because friendship challenges the claim of sovereign mastery. Friendship across religious boundaries makes it impossible to claim sovereign mastery for a religious community as it becomes a political identity—an invention of colonial modernity—because it signals the inextricable entanglement of the self with the other. And so the rise of Hindu nationalism, and its desire for complete Hindu dominance of the state in India, has seen a systematic public campaign—through Bollywood films and WhatsApp forwards— to make suspect any form of friendship or intimacy between Hindus and Muslims.
Rushnae Kabir: Your book offers a nuanced vision of secularism. It is one that is not devoid of religiosity, but rather religiosity forms the common ground through which morality is expressed. In developing this argument, how do you draw on (and challenge) previous critical studies of secularism in anthropology?
Anand Taneja: For me, one of the most trenchant critiques of state secularism comes from Saba Mahmood, who writes in the conclusion of Religious Difference in A Secular Age, that “Secularism as a statist project exerts inordinate power on our political imagination, most evident in our inability to envision religious equality without the agency of the state… how can we expect the modern state to ameliorate religious inequality when… its institutions and practices hierarchize religious differences, enshrine majoritarian religious and cultural norms in the nation’s identity and laws, and allow for religious inequalities to flourish in society while declaring them to be apolitical?” Mahmood asks us instead to turn towards a “critical practice of pluralism.” This is the move I make in my book, moving away from secularism—a concept that has been thoroughly interrogated and critically unpacked by scholars such as Hussein Agrama and Mayanthi Fernando—to thinking about the grounds of a flourishing, religiously plural society without the agency of the state. I made this move guided by my Indian Muslim interlocutors, who were living with the failures of state secularism, and also saw no contradiction between being deeply religious and yet committed to a religiously plural society. Their subject positions, and the poetry and scripture they quoted, guided me back towards Mughal political theory, where it is not the power of state that is the guarantor of multi-religious flourishing, but rather, the work of ethical cultivation that is done to make selves who are not just tolerant towards religious difference, but deeply welcoming of diversity. This work of ethical cultivation, of course, brings us squarely into the domain of religion.
Rushnae Kabir: Your book draws attention to the openness of the Islamic tradition, which has provided your interlocutors with various capacities: of non-national belonging, of non-conventional religiosity, and of friendship in the face of difference. Often, you show us how common people develop their own, deeply private yet publicly engaged, imaginations of Islam. How are these engagements with Islam shaping new forms of religious authority in contemporary India?
Anand Taneja: In the book I quote a poet who says that I used to be afraid of God, but after reading Ghalib I truly came to faith. In that same chapter, I quote a religious leader who says that audacity and boldness are valuable, even desirable qualities in religious life. All of this tracks with Shahab Ahmed’s observation that there is a vast exploratory dimension to Muslim religious life that has become quite invisibilized in Islamic Studies because of dominant understandings of the tradition as primarily prescriptive of behaviour and norms. The openness of the tradition, for individuals living their lives as Muslims (especially through their engagement with poetry), is a longstanding part of the tradition. What is new is how the networked public sphere, and the particular circumstances of living under a deeply Islamophobic regime, are driving changes in the public, prescriptive life of the tradition. In Chapter 6 of the book, I explore how the social-media driven activism of young Muslims interacted with the strategic silence of traditional ‘ulema to bring about the novelty of joint Shia-Sunni prayers as a way of unifying the community. The exploratory, personal dimension of faith is interacting with prescriptive forms of authority in new, more public ways, and these interactions are not necessarily or always antagonistic.
Rushnae Kabir: In Chapter 3, you show how the networked public sphere has restructured gender relations in India and allowed women to take up greater space in both public and private capacities. What drew your attention to women’s engagements in the public sphere? How did these engagements culminate in the women-led Shaheen Bagh protests, which you engage with in great depth?
Anand Taneja: As a young college student in Delhi, and one not familiar with Urdu literary culture, the Urdu poets I encountered were all men: Ghalib, Iqbal, Faiz, Nida Fazli. It was when I started doing fieldwork in Delhi in 2018 that I started encountering women poets, many of whom I write about in the book: Aleena Itrat, Gouri Chugh, Pooja Bhatiya, Sabika Naqvi, Samina Tabassum. All of them came into public view through the internet and social media. So in a certain way the networked public sphere allowed for women to bypass (even if unconsciously) the patriarchal gatekeeping of publishing and patronage and to gain more visibility. I do not think that there is a directly causal relation between the growing visibility of women poets and the women-led protests in Shaheen Bagh. However, the potentialities created by the networked public sphere—the ability of women to network and dialogue even without access to (male dominated) public spaces, the networks and connections between men and women, the openness all of this created towards being more receptive to women’s voices and presence—certainly went a long way, in my understanding, to making something like Shaheen Bagh possible.
Rushnae Kabir: Different temporalities play an important role in enabling the political imaginations at the heart of your book. The past offers traditions of coexistence, the present is a time of wehshat that leads to junun (divine love-madness), while the future offers radical possibilities, as glimpsed in Shaheen Bagh. Could you comment on each of these threads? How do these temporalities shape the vision of love, politics, and belonging you have examined?
Anand Taneja: One of the most beautiful expressions of the temporality of poets and poetry is by Nosheen Ali, who writes about the relationship of contemporary poets in Pakistan to (what linear time would conceive of as) the past thus: “Indeed, “contemporary” poets conceive of themselves in conversation with the living word of poets, deceased or alive. A poet goes back and forth, back and forth, not across vast swathes of time — as we often hear — but within eternal time, in a manner as freeing and constrained as a child on a swing.” Nothing new happens in the Urdu poetic universe, I’ve been told in Delhi, it just happens to new people. So muhabbat, wehshat, and junun are not temporal stages, but affective/ethical/spiritual cycles we all have to go through, individually and collectively. When Ghalib wrote Azadah rau hoon aur mera maslak hai sulh e kull (I am free countenanced and my religious path is peace with all), the philosophy of sulh-e kull was not a bygone relic of Akbar’s court from three centuries before, but a living reality for him. This is the magic of poetry: that despite the destructions of colonialism and post-colonial nationalism, those ethical orientations are alive and palpable and accessible for us even today: To quote William Faulkner, “The past is never dead. It is not even past.” For me the poetic orientation where there is no telos, no end of history, is ethically empowering. We have to struggle like every generation before us has struggled. Every generation has the resources of muhabbat, of building love between individuals and communities. In every generation this is challenged by forces of hate and division, leading to the feeling of frenzy and savagery, of wehshat. Every generation must rise to the challenge of transcending this through junoon, through divine love madness, ignoring the calculus of expediency and caution to reimagine and rebuild the world anew. For junoon, as a wise man said to me, is the extreme limit of muhabbat, of love. And so the cycle repeats.










